Renewables Hotline: Anávo

We sat down with the HR industry expert: Jan Rieche, VP of Global Talent Acquisition at Anávo, who gave us an insight into industry trends and some tips for both recruiters and job seekers…

Belén Gallego 0:07
So welcome everyone to this new session of renewables hotline. And today with me, I have the pleasure of be able to talk to someone who knows a lot about getting a job in the renewable energy industry, getting a candidate that you’re looking for, for your company, and is going to teach us and tell us a little bit about the tricks of the trade and in what you need to do to get a job or to get a candidate. JOHN, please, if you could introduce yourself.

Jan Rieche 0:35
Hello, everyone. My name is Jan de here, I’m heading up the global presence of a novel and international recruitment company specialized in renewable energy, maybe I’ll give you a few numbers and figures there. Were an Australian business, we have a global presence with offices in, in Europe, in Africa, in the US, and of course, in Australia and New Zealand.

I personally have been in renewables recruitment for the past 13 years in recruitment and HR advisory. We’re working with some of the best known global product developers EPC companies and equipment manufacturers worldwide. And I worked personally and with my team on the ground in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, the US of Africa. And personally, I filled over 300 roles in the renewable energy industry. Yeah, that’s worldwide, as you know, 300 rolls, that’s quite impressive, john, so thank you very much, you know, that’s a huge contribution to our industry. And for everyone out there. I mean, we’re in a situation where the industry is growing very, very quickly, we’re looking for jobs for 34 candidates, pretty much everywhere very, very quickly, too. So it’s a very interesting time to be in the renewable energy industry. So we’re going to hear from john more about this. This, you know, how do you get the right job for you? How do you get the right candidate for you? But first, please tell us what what is an hour? Where does it come from? You know, tell us about polyglot, you know, the original name of the company and exactly what types of profiles you recruit for. Tell us a little bit more, please. Sure, I’ll try and try to be brief in the marketing pitch, so we have more time for everything else. So the company Annabelle stands for it’s all Greek and stands for to enlighten, to spark to start up something new. And we are part of the polygon group, polygon group does not only do recruitment, but also HR advisory. We do

translations, we do immigration support, we do outsource payroll, we do set up for business in a new country. So everything you need if you as a business, as renewable energy business started going into a new country, we can we can help you with the another brand we’ve just recently spun off to make it clearer what we do or what we can do and what we have done for the recruitment industry in renewables for the past 10 years, what kind of profiles that we usually recruit for, I think, at the end of the day, and anything that comes to project management, the EPC, so your project managers, your construction managers, your engineers, both on the electrical and civil side, we worked with equipment manufacturers, where you have product managers, where you have sales people where you have country managers, so pretty much anything, think anything in a renewable energy business might be one that produces equipment, or might that be one that actually does projects, meets on a slightly more senior end of town. So three years plus of experience, all the way up to sea level is what we do. And we have different people around the globe with the relevant experience to do those jobs.

Belén Gallego 3:47
Excellent Susan, all around service. For companies that may have a project perhaps in a country, they need specific staff, but maybe they don’t have an office so that you tick that box. And also, there’s a number of roles, I think it’s pretty much in a role that is needed in the construction of a project and from what I’ve been hearing from you, and all the way to sea level. So that’s excellent. And you mentioned a little bit the type of companies that you work with, but can you give us a little bit, perhaps more details or go into a little bit more detail on the kind of companies that you help recruit,

Jan Rieche 4:21
for sure. So we usually work with smaller and medium sized companies because they usually don’t have a big HR setup that can support them, either in their own country or when they go and overseas. But at the same time, we also work with very big international companies from the US from Europe, we’re actually entering a new market like Australia or New Zealand, where they don’t have a setup yet, so they need to set up a company they need to find a managing director. They eventually need a contract for the person that they employ any payroll to pay the person they need HR advice they need sometimes for installation for

Documents marketing material into the local language with all that we can help with, or we just pieces off that we can help with.

Belén Gallego 5:09
Sound like like mainly what you do is offer companies experience and also people with experience that can help them solve their challenges in a specific area, which I suppose is exactly what recruitment does. So Okay, next question is really getting more into the meat of the renewable industry itself? And what makes it special. So at the moment, what notable trends in hiring Do you see in the renewable energy industry today?

Jan Rieche 5:36
Well, there’s the obvious trend of if we’re looking around the world, anywhere, really, probably Europe, especially at the moment, but anywhere in the world, more and more large scale projects actually coming up. So large scale, that means large scale solar, large scale wind projects, but also other industries. So we seeing your product managers, your project engineers, your construction managers, your supervisors, all with experience in large scale projects are really very much in demand anywhere around the world. Which brings us to our first problem that everyone is looking for the same type of experience and the same type of profiles. Then, as I mentioned, we’re seeing a general strong growth of renewable energy picking up around the world, again, as I mentioned, especially here in Europe, with the recently announced and action Green Deal here. And we’re seeing the rise of energy storage, for distribution of renewable energy that’s being produced and for the transport as well. So particularly talking about

batteries, we’re talking about so often recently talked about green hydrogen, these are all trends that are coming up. And then of course, we also seeing the body sometimes a bit forgotten technologies of tidal and wave energy, of bio energy, and new new energies coming up into the mix that actually being looked at at the moment, globally by very different players might not be big, established players, or might that be new startup companies around the world?

Belén Gallego 7:10
Excellent. Thank you very much. Pretty much what are the big trends in the industry we’re seeing? Also trendy hiring for very interesting, and expected, I suppose away as well, in a way.

But the one thing that I wanted to ask you to the most important question for me really, to understand this, I speak to human resource managers, and they say that they cannot find the right candidate for many of the jobs that they have out there. But also I speak to candidates that say they can’t get through applications cannot get jobs, maybe they don’t get responses. So it seems like there is like an a symmetry in the market, you know that something is happening, what is happening, because you’re in the middle, you understand it.

Jan Rieche 7:53
And we see this every day. And look, there’s two ways to look at it from a company point of view. And then of course, from the candidate point of view. So from a company point of view, I touched on that before, just now,

the industry is growing strongly, a lot of these companies are really working at 100%. They don’t have sometimes the,

the processes internally set up to deal with that next stage of growth are always continuous stage of growth. So they need people immediately to work on projects, to satisfy their clients in a highly competitive market. So they need people who can hit the ground running, as they always say, that puts us with a problem because there aren’t that many people that actually have the experience and want to move into a new project into new country into a new company all the time. So the issue for companies is they can’t find the people that they’re looking for right away.

Also, they’re so busy internally that quite often they don’t even find time to answer candidates applying for the job. So quite often, it’s not you candidate, it’s actually the process of the company that they don’t have the time and the resources to answer to your application. The second point of view to look at it is from a candidate point of view.

Either you’re in the industry, and you get 10 recruiters calling you every day because they want to hire you for different projects for different companies. So you’re getting a bit of noise. Or if you’re on the fringes of the industry, or you’re not really in the industry yet, how do I actually get into the industry. That’s really the tricky part. So if companies see your application, and you don’t take all the boxes, or you don’t take most of the boxes, they don’t think that you can actually contribute to the business right away is which is what they need.

Belén Gallego 9:45
Now, these are all good points. And of course, problem is things that are out of the control of the candidates very, very often. But it’s a shame because there’s a market the symmetry there is you know, clearly demand and supply by is not quite

Matching at the moment. If you are a human resources manager right now, in view of everything that you just said, What are the biggest challenges you have if you’re in renewable energy?

Jan Rieche 10:13
Well, look, SSH is now everyone is looking for the same skill set.

So you need to look into your organization, how can I attract the right people? How can I find people with transferable skill sets that are similar to what I’m looking for here? And how can I actually implement the proper HR process internally, that I can actually bring these people up to speed so to speak?

Because at the end of the day, renewables have become the new Bay Area Bay Area being the San Francisco Bay Area in the US where there’s been an acute shortage of good talent for years now. So how do I as a business, as a company, how do I compete to actually attract the right people at the right time is enough just to pay more, sometimes that helps, of course, by just part of the overall package for candidates. So why is it maybe not enough to pay more and can actually pay more. So company culture,

as cheesy as it may sound contributions to a better word is what counts to candidates as well.

Candidates increasingly look at good internal processes of communication, not just by the HR department, to me as a candidate or as a person, but also generally from a company point of view.

This all this is very hard for for new, growing, expanding company to keep up with when you actually all the time have this constant challenges. And but then you might expect me to say this, but specialized recruiters like us are often the solution. Because we have better networks, we have different tools that we can actually attract candidates with and by, we have long grown personal relationships with them with candidates that we can call for opportunities, that might not be the right opportunity at first glance for them. So someone like us, I’m not saying that we can do miracles, but we can very often help to find the right people, for HR managers, and they’re the hiring managers. Yeah, and I would assume also having an impartial sort of helper that is kind of in the middle of, you know, in between you and the candidate can also help greatly, you know, because sometimes, like if you are only you’re the only point of view they’ve considering it’s a little bit harder, not to speak of, like just directly go in and speak into candidates as a company or going as a recruiter, there is a different conversation to be had there. I think. So it’s kind of like a little bit of how do you communicate that appropriately? So I think, even though Yes, of course, you would say that, you know, at the same time, I think is important. You know, I often wonder, you know, how there is not even more help, you know, from HR managers even and things like, sorry, negotiations and things like that, because it’s an impartial third party, you know, that it can, can be in the middle, like, going back and forth and trying to find, like a middle ground between between two parties to me, like, I’m all for, you know, a probably more than less of you guys. Well, and you started going Billund. Firstly, when you actually, for instance, the hiring manager, you know, someone already you think was good for the job, it doesn’t mean that there’s someone else who’s better for the job. Secondly, and quite often, it’s still a little frowned upon if from one company, you go directly to another company and take the people out. It’s just not gentlemen, like if you want to put it that way.

And thirdly, we can also give you give companies advice on on salaries, packages, company culture, thinks that they might better might have to better in their offer or something that as a company, they should communicate stronger, to attract more client candidates.

Belén Gallego 14:03
Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more. So thank you very much for clarifying those three points, because they’re very, very important. And to consider guys in the HR side of things. And I’d like to go to the other side of thing the size of the candidates, what do you see the challenges that the candidates have? Or the people that are looking for jobs have and how do they overcome them, you know, in this specific industry, or how to overcome them?

Jan Rieche 14:27
Yes, I think for candidates, the biggest challenges are actually, either, as I said, before you you’re in the business, you’re doing the project, everyone knows you, you will get many calls by recruiters, or you’re not in the industry yet, or you don’t have a public enough profile. So people don’t come to you but you’re applying for roles, as you mentioned before, but then the issue sometimes you’re having is that you never hear back from a company that is just overrun with with work and processes that can’t really reply to you in their own right. So the question is, how do I land my first, my first job or my new job in this industry? And that’s, that’s really a problem that a lot of candidates face at the moment. So if you’re outside the industry, the question is, how do I land my first job, if I don’t have the experience of x years, working as a project manager, as a product manager and sales of solar pellets, for instance, how do I get to talk to the company and the hiring managers? There, my advice is, as a candidate who’s come from the outside of the market, and who actually wants to use their experience externally, to move that across into the industry, I would suggest for you to map the market, see what’s happening, see who’s out there. Look at case studies that are out there, you can actually see where companies or projects have problems where someone like yourself with experience could actually contribute. Learn the jargon, it’s quite, it’s quite important. It’s not much. But if you speak the jargon, people get the impression that you have either on your research or that you’re really inside the industry. and identify the key trends and topics that are really actually happening at the moment. And then most importantly, show how your skills that you have already are transferable and show your willingness to actually learn. And really, yeah, I guess, apply your current knowledge to the new job, user network, that’s, that’s quite often, that’s a big thing. If you have a network, use it in order to get a first shot, to at least talk to a company wants to talk to a company, of course, stood up to you in the interview the interviewer, but you’ve done most of the way that’s actually quite a rocky path. wherever it’s legally possible in your country, try and volunteer or start part time and roll and start looking at companies in the consulting space, or its suppliers at the fringe of the renewable energy industry, where your skills are quite often more transferable than a company is actually working directly in renewables. I’ll give you an example. 15 years ago, when I first started to work in recruitment in renewables, I wanted to work in renewables. And I was an engineer. And there weren’t that many companies around at the time. So I looked at the market, where I could actually add value. I worked in recruitment already at the time in it recruitment. So I saw a trend, a transferable skill here actually use my recruitment skills to move into the renewable energy space. Back when in 2008,

global financial crisis wasn’t easy. But the networks built back then are still helping me to this day, to actually having the ability to speak to senior people, senior managers in the industry might not be as good as candidates or might not be as clients.

Belén Gallego 18:10
Thank you very much, john, for sharing that with us. I think it’s a great example of what you just said. And congratulations, because you’re in the renewable energy industry now. I kind of was similar thing for me, I started in a different industry, but then I moved to renewables, but it was many years ago. So now To be honest, renewables is mostly what I’ve done. Really, I haven’t really by comparison that myself. I wanted to ask, it seems like I’m always keeping a little bit ahead. But it sounds like this. This industry is very, very international. And we had to internally internationalize very, very quickly because we were kind of seeking the markets, you know, where the next renewable energy wave was going out. And at the moment, we’re in a situation where it’s kind of growing everywhere. So you could probably have a job long term in one place, you know, in renewable energy and be fine. But for many, many years, we’ve been like moving around. So for this very international job, how do candidates go about moving internationally, they want to do so or also how do HR managers hire for international roles, you know, move international moving roles, if you could tell us a little bit more about how to make it happen.

Jan Rieche 19:20
After being here, you’re spot on the BLM. We’ve seen this around the world, not just for the big companies actually moving into different geographies, doing projects there. But we also saw for for smaller project development companies, EPC companies, and following them, of course, the equipment manufacturers that they’ve actually moved around the world so they needed to set up quite often they need local talent to work for them. But at the same time, they also quite often like to transfer some of their own people across so both from a company and from. But from a candidate point of view, working in a different geography in renewables is actually quite attractive is probably in this industry, easier than in many other industry to actually get a transfer might not be internally, within your company.

If you as a company you’re planning to do that. service company like us can help you actually, with the visa requirements, and all these kind of things that can be quite daunting sometimes if you want to move from, say, Spain, your business to Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and so forth. But look, at the end of the day. The first port of call, of course, is if you don’t have a setup in the country already, where you can actually rely on your own local resources, work with international recruiters like us that actually have people on the ground, we can give you advice on how easy it is to find a person how to employ them. If you need to set up a company or not, sometimes you don’t even need to set up a company we can help you without what you need to pay, how you attract them, and how you can actually work through the entire HR process, paying benefits and all this sort of stuff to the state. As a candidate, again, I mentioned this before, but use your network, you might know someone in your network who actually opens up a branch in a different geography you would like to work in, you can speak with that company at headquarters in your country to actually then transfer across. And as a person internally, if you can apply for a transfer internally to go abroad, you’ll find find it easier, sometimes it become at the right time, easier than you think that it actually works. So in our industry being quite International, both from the way projects are being done, as well as equipment is being distributed around the world. It’s actually a very international company industry, where you actually get the opportunity to work in different geography, either for a certain amount of time, a project or a set amount of years, who actually for for good to emigrate to say, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US.

Belén Gallego 22:14
Thank you very much, john. And there is a lot of movement for sure. So we’ll we’ll watch the space to see you know, how it continues to evolve. You’ve been talking a lot about, you know, what’s going on, and the mismatch between supply and demand right now and the industry. And to me, your sounds like there is a lot of expectation, managing management that you have to do you know, from the HR side, and from the candidate side. I just wanted to know, how do you help companies and candidates go through this kind of like, time, you know, where, you know, they’re looking for someone or like they’re looking for a job and try to match them up? And, you know, keeping the survey expectations in check, so that there is like a good resolution?

Jan Rieche 22:53
Sure. So I guess the the expectations by company are, I need someone for the project, I need that person right away in X amount of weeks. So how do I find that person? And why? Why do I not? Why can’t I find that person? From a candidate point of view, I’m applying for a role, but I don’t hear back or my skills are not the right skills, what what’s going on. So again, our our part of the expectation management is for companies to help them to find the right offer that they put out there to attract candidates. That might be the salary, of course, but it’s not always just the salary. It’s company culture, its long term incentives to stay with a project or stay with with a company. It’s also really given the candidates a clear path, how they can grow within the organization. So that’s important to attract candidates. And again, it’s important to listen to people in the industry that are just outside your, your company, your comfort zone, people that you know, because quite often bigger market trends are slightly different from what you’re seeing everyday in your own environment. So again, at least listening to to the likes of us who actually had the experience to speak to different companies and then people in the in the business every day is is off value. Because again, we have we have different tools and your local HR manager has we have our own networks, we quite often come in as the impartial party, when we’re talking to candidates who might not consider your company in the beginning for whatever reason, some bad publicity they’ve picked up or some bad experienced by groundtruth employee who left long time ago. Things we can smooth over and actually talk talk about, really what the role the company has to offer. And we can also source candidates from overseas. So if you’re looking for someone in the US, for instance, someone who works in Australia or in the UK, on a similar project before might actually be the person who can help on from a candidate point of view. As a candidate, if you work with us to work with them to apply for a role with a company, we often have the better direct access to the hiring manager or the HR manager. So we are in a better position to give you feedback through the process rather than hearing nothing and then either hearing something that you get an interview, and then hearing nothing again, so we can actually help you more through the process and just get your get better timing out of your experience in applying for a company. This, by the way, a billion is actually something that leaves quite often a bad taste in the mouth of candidates, when they get completely ignored. Because for whatever reason, they’re, the application doesn’t get to the right person, to actually get that bad experience with a company without the company even knowing about it. So if we handle candidates, and they always get, get a feedback from us, even if they’re not successful, but we tried to give them as much information as possible, why they haven’t been successful in what they can be, can be doing or should be doing better the next time with their next application.

Belén Gallego 26:22
Feedback is so important. And it is true that today, you get nothing from from the interviews from the companies, I mean, you very, very rare that a company will give you feedback, even if you request it. So you know that I think for candidates should make a huge difference we working with, with your company or competition on the recruitment side, if at least you know, it allows you to kind of make some progress in your own evolution.

Jan Rieche 26:47
So I believe it’s very important, but then because as a candidate you share the most valuable that you have, which is your experience, your CV, right? You share that with a company that’s quite confidential information. So at least you would expect that someone says yes, we have it your information is safe with us. And yes, you’re being considered or you know, you’re not being considered. So I’m, I’m entirely with you. And we’re trying our best to actually bridge that gap whenever we’re working with a company in a candidate. Again, not to really kind of protect companies not doing that. But it’s quite often hard for these companies, they haven’t been set up for 30 4050 years, and they have big HR departments that they can actually really take care of that they should be having those because human resources are and everyone is saying that the most valuable resource in almost any business. But again, they’ve grown so strongly that kind of setting up these operations, these operational processes. It’s it’s in the process at the moment, but it still takes time.

Belén Gallego 27:52
So it’s a little bit originating, I think, because the way to forward, you know, to make things more efficient, which makes perfect sense for the HR department includes, for example, using HR software’s, you know, they’re looking for keywords. And I mean, if you don’t have any of you, if you don’t know this, if you don’t spend quite a lot of time researching this, if you don’t understand what the keywords are. It’s very easy to be left out, you know, a good, good, perfectly good candidate, not even be read by a person, you know, just simply moved away. So there is there is there is a lot of things in that. And I think also there is an issue here for companies because you’ve been not reading the CVS of good candidates, just because they haven’t used the keyword. It’s, it’s a little bit dangerous. But for sure, you know, there is a lot of I think in the next few years, this this industry needs to HR in certain needs to move forward quite a bit in the way that that the candidates are. I looked at I suppose, but we’ll see. We’ll see how it goes. I want to ask you a question about job growth. You know, imagine someone that is either looking at these industries and opportunity, you know, for their career or someone that has been here for a while and is wondering, should I stay? Should they make a step? sidestep is like I think about where is the job growth coming from? Is it here to stay? You know, how do I position myself so that the job still here in it leads me to further and better in the future? You know, so that he can I can make a whole entire career out of it. So, you know, just really open question about you know, how to position yourself for the right functions and stuff?

Jan Rieche 29:31
Sure, that’s that’s a good question. So I mentioned this before, those large scale projects, big solar installations, big wind installations that will continue to bloom around the world, the project could probably get a bit trickier now that then the easy projects have been done. And then localities might get different, I might foreseeing a big boom for Africa eventually For, for for big projects to go there. So anything to do with large scale projects, meaning engineers for for construction, but also for development that will grow. This will also continue to offer opportunities for people from outside the industry that have good project management, product engineering experience to come across into the industry. I think if we’re looking at the newer technologies and the installation of batteries and other storage mediums that will actually that will increase to grow. Green, green hydrogen and green ammonia. It’s a big, big, big buzzword here. Which brings me to new technologies. I think we just mentioned green hydrogen, but also tidal and wave, something that’s been around for a long time is coming slowly but surely to maturity. Now, biomass has been a fairly big contributor to renewable energy generation in many countries. That’s coming back to the fore again now. And I guess what makes it interesting is now I mentioned before, that companies are setting themselves up more and more, like, I guess, old fashioned organizations with good structures and good processes, that actually offers the opportunity for people in HQ functions, marketing, payroll, finance, HR to actually move across from different industries with their experience, to bring that experience to the renewable energy industry. And I guess generally, renewable energy is definitely here to stay, we’ll see quite a few different trends, different technologies, improved technologies coming to look for, but for the next 1020 years, renewable energy is actually a huge part, and already a huge part of our work life. And there’s many new trends that come I mean, we’re looking at distributed generation versus local generation in houses in communities, and how do we actually distribute the energy? There’s there’s many new jobs coming up and many more jobs in existing roles that we already have, that will be created all around the world.

Belén Gallego 32:17
Thank you, Jan. In fact, an entire pandemic recovery effort in many places, relies very heavily on renewable energy. So I think that’s a good that’s a good thing is we need more jobs and, and good jobs the last a very, very long time. So question, just in terms of a fire was a HR manager in a company, from your point of view, what do I need to do to get the best talent in the renewable energy industry right now.

Jan Rieche 32:51
The best talent in the renewable energy industry right now is what you need to do is, again, of course, you pay to pay according to market, you need to show people in a short term and a long term way, how they can participate in the success of your project or your company. So that’s, I guess, a clear way of putting bonuses in putting long term incentives, shares, and so forth on the table. Candidates are more and more interested in these things these days. You need to firstly create that and also communicate the company culture that you have that it’s actually your organization is not just a fun place to work at, but also a safe workplace. And when it comes to women working in your organization, or these types of things, you need to have it but you also need to communicate that. Thirdly, be flexible when it comes to wear, wear where people work, I think the pandemic at the moment is bringing this to the fore. But our industry has been, I think, very progressive in a way right from the start, mainly because of the lack of proper setup everywhere. And people were actually able to work partly or entirely from home or from locations they wished for, rather than a headquarters office that they always had to travel to and work in. That’s important. I guess, build up strong internal processes. And a lot of the companies and sometimes even smaller companies that actually are successful today, they probably didn’t look like winners from the start, are actually the ones that managed while doing their projects selling their goods that they need to sell. So bringing the money in at the same time, not just chasing the next dollar or euro and but also actually creating an internal process that prepares your organization for growth, not just from from an HR point of view, how do I get the next people into the organization but also From a vision of the company, how do I set the organization up? How do I communicate this, this is actually how you attract good talent these days, you pay them well, you involve them in your company in your in your project, and you create an environment and processes that actually attracts people to work in your organization.

Belén Gallego 35:20
Excellent. Thank you very much. Very, very great. Summary. Thank you very much, john. I only have one follow up question on what you said now? And is you mentioned flexibility in working from home? And I just, you know, as a as one thing that the candidates like, do you think it’s here to stay? I mean, this is not a conversation about renewable energy is a conversation on generally, you know, the the future of work, so to speak, but in our industry specifically, do you see it here to stay? Do you see something that the flexibility can continue? And of course, I’m talking, I’m not talking about roles in the field, I’m talking about more roles that can be done from anywhere?

Jan Rieche 35:59
Yes, of course, there are roles. If you’re actually putting solar panels onto a table in a big solar project, for instance. You can’t do that from home, of course. But to answer your question, I think it’s here to stay. I think companies have seen that home setups where possible, are actually good, they actually give you more relaxed, more loyal employees. Will we see an environment where we have just a few jobs in headquarter office, and everyone else is working, distributed around the world. Now, that won’t work for many reasons. Firstly, you have people starting fresh in your organization, or our new status after university or after their apprenticeship, you can’t just put them into a home office and expect them to pick things up. Things that you usually ask over the shoulder over drink of water at the water cooler, or a coffee in the kitchen that you can’t replace. So you need that. Secondly, we talked about culture, company culture before that, that’s becoming more and more important employer branding. You if you want to create, keep and evolve a culture, you need to be with people. And you can’t do that every three or six months in in a global or regional meeting. So you actually need to find or we need to find a way where we can make it easier for people to work from home. So they have say two or three days from home, which solves a lot of questions congestion on on your way to work rush hour, it limits curbs co2 emissions right away, because less people have to travel back and forth. But at the same time, people get quite efficient and able to have a better work life balance. And at the same time, having people in the office when possible outside pandemic times that is of course. But when you actually have people in the office, use that time effectively for not having them to work there, but actually for team building activities for improving and evolving your culture. So I think to answer your question, in one sentence, yes, it’s here to say, probably won’t go entirely office space, nor will we go entirely home office space,

Belén Gallego 38:27
maybe a hybrid solution. I live at the best of both worlds. So thank you very much, john, you’ve been an absolute champ answering all our questions. I think that if for all the candidates out there that are looking for jobs, you want someone in your corner that can give you honest feedback that can help you alone that can give you an impartial view, you got your guy here, you know, you should contact young AI for HR managers, you know, if you guys are getting stuck, you know, you can find the profiles you’re looking for. And you need to readjust and impartial view will help you immensely. So, you know, janjira guy by the sounds of things, get in touch with them. Thank you very much for all of these honest answers, john, and it’s never black or white? Is it? There is always a negotiation going on in the

Jan Rieche 39:14
No, it would be too easy. But again, I guess we can’t do miracles. We can’t clone people. But we can help. We can help you. Remember, we’re not charging for conversation where we can give you some advice on what you need to do differently or what sometimes you just need to portray differently in order to find the right people. And yet we can also help you find those people when when you charge us to do so. And as an organization, we can help you set up a new country HR advice, payroll advice, all that stuff we can help with. But we all work in a great industry. People are becoming more more a bottleneck of a lot of projects, expansions. For companies, because they can’t find the right people to do it for them with them. So human resources are a critical factor that needs to be treated well, both when we want to find them, when we have them in sometimes even when we’re letting them go. And we need to treat them well. And this is, this is where we can help and this industry is to grow. So these pains that we’re having at the moment of not finding the right people are not going away, they’re going to get if anything, they get worse. So this is something that needs that. Not just hiring managers and HR managers, but people at sea level need to look at and consider strongly.

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