Recording and presentations: Albedo, bifacial PV gains and project bankability

25 June 2020

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Automated transcription (it may contain errors)

Belén Gallego 1:12
Good morning everyone. Perhaps Good afternoon, depending where you’re joining from. I just wanted to let you know that you’re in the right place. We are here in the online session available financial gains improved bankability. However, we’re going to allow two more minutes for people to come into the room. In those two minutes, I would like to ask you to request or to invite you to use the chat on the right hand side and introduce yourself, your company and also where you’re joining from today. And in one minute now, we you will be introduced to our speakers we will introduce the topic and we will begin the presentations. And just to introduce myself, my name is billing Diego and I am From a TA insights, and I’m joining today from Madrid, thank you very much and see you in one minute.

Well, good morning everyone and welcome to this webinar. In our own albedo financial PV gains in Project one community, I am very glad to see today so many people that have joined from all over the world. Please keep introducing yourselves. So far I’ve seen people from the UAE from Zimbabwe from Australia, there’s a lot of Spaniards as well. And please keep sending and introducing yourselves to the chat. And I would like to introduce yourself to today’s experts, the people that are going to be talking to you about albedo find by by facial PV gain, and bankability as you know, by facial PV panels and by facial PV projects are going to be actually probably even more than 40% from to 2030 and beyond because they have higher efficiency than normal PV panels and you can actually take advantage of lower LTV with them. So to talk about these matters, I’d like to introduce first and foremost, Miguel, please could you unmute your microphone, introduce yourself today. Cheers.

Unknown Speaker 4:00
Good morning afternoon everyone. I’m Megan census. I’m responsible for the EPC department for Europe in jenko power. We are the business unit focusing jenko for the projects, IPP, etc. tivities Okay, I’m now I’m the first to do all for this presentation today. So I’m going to present the point of view of the developer. So most of you maybe know, the power company I’m working is a IPP producer. So we are involved in development, finance, and after that, for the construction of the project, until the cod and we start our brace here with a brace here and have every prayer done. we finalize. So having said that,

Belén Gallego 5:05
sorry, go on me.

Unknown Speaker 5:06
Okay. Okay. Well, I don’t know about them in

Belén Gallego 5:09
presentation we’ll do later. We’ll just do now a quick introduction, and then we’ll move on to the presentation. So don’t worry. So essentially dinko pretty developer, but also, you know, has part of the bV model manufacturers you can see him by facial is a big part of the strategy that Alberto, Next please could you introduce yourself?

Unknown Speaker 5:29
Sure. Thank you. Welcome everybody. My name is Allah. And the general manager at renewables, which is a different company in the same group that it inside. We are in the bandanna vise for underneath alibis on an Indian film. Well, I will focus my speak today on on either measurement or under the estimations. Happy to be here with you today.

Belén Gallego 5:54
Excellent. Thank you very much. And last but certainly not least, you’re representing The Money, money people.

Unknown Speaker 6:03
Could you do this yourself?

Unknown Speaker 6:05
Yes, sure. Hello. Good morning and good afternoon, everybody. Welcome from my side as well. My name is yo Khan. I’m heading bank. Yes, structured finance division. So out of my team, we cover basically project finance and asset finance transactions. As you can imagine, with all the things going on right now in Spain, our focus right now is certainly on financing renewable energy projects here in Spain. And well, later I think I would still cover this when when it’s my turn to talk but maybe you know that we’ve been one of the first movers also in considering merchant and PPA financings of renewable energies here in Spain and in doing this now for the last two, three years, and well I also like to, to talk a bit about are they doing by facial PV projects and So happy to talk to you in the next minutes.

Belén Gallego 7:04
Thank you very much. You’re okay. So I’d like to ask Miguel to please unmute yourself prepared your presentation. And whilst Miguel does that, just to tell people here in the audience, if you’re new with us, or you already know us, essentially the way that this structure will work is Miguel will give a presentation, then Alberto, then you’re okay. And then we’ll take questions, I see that you’re very keen, you’re already sending questions. Some of those will definitely be answered during the during the presentations. Please send your questions through the q&a box at the bottom don’t use the chat. The chat is for us, you know, just to talk about ourselves to introduce ourselves but in the in the questions in the q&a box. We actually can manage the questions a lot better. So please do it that way. And, yeah, just to let you know, we are filming we’re recording the session and you will have the recordings available. And also, we will send you the materials so that you can review them as well. Miguel, you ready? Your screen?

Unknown Speaker 8:00
Sure, we already

Belén Gallego 8:02
have a question. You know, we were really saying like, oh, I’ll be this changing how do I calculate it? Don’t worry, we get to it in detail Vader’s changing, you know, as little as two three years ago by facial panels were an absolute, you know, innovation of what it really understood how that works. But luckily there has been a lot of research behind it and many more projects. So we know a lot more now. Miguel, perfect you I can see your screen perfectly. So go right ahead. All right.

Unknown Speaker 8:29
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 8:32
Okay. Just interviews. My presentation navia is not going in very detail oriented technology, just an overview about what the vulnerabilities come from and also how we have to treat the this kind of technology in order to make it make sense for the whole brace. So Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:02
Well, first of all,

Unknown Speaker 9:04
let’s talk about the global market in highlights. So what I have included here is, uh, let me

Unknown Speaker 9:14

Unknown Speaker 9:17
Is there evolution in the last five year about the technology, the PV market has been incredible. So what I’m saying because has been dramatically reduces. And also the number of our projects here in stock has grown at 70%, around 70%. Over the last five years, and the future at this moment with the policies here in Europe that the European Union is taking over. So we can be very optimistic in the in the future of this technology. Didn’t these future created up by fossil technology is going to be a key. So, the by facha technology comes from the birth model. I think is this is another forum to go into detail technical details about the catalytic converter material is the passivated that meet their rear contact. That is the why the parents means, I said new technology in order to we can achieve 0.5 to 1% increase of the of the efficiency of the cells. So, this is with the increase of cost for the for the more for the model around one to two cents of dollar cents a view compared with a classic monopoly model that is the most commonly installed as of today. For the part of a random factors, the process to convert a mono mono reselling model to a bi fasciae is really easy. It’s not going to take my TA, db Norman in order to create a new manufacturer rely for the reason for this earlier another pleasure initiate updation the talents that this kind of model they have at this moment is going to be the link, we now have some bullet points. So first of all, I think is the, the related, which is a loss of efficiency and made by the increase of their temperature is a say, mechanism is going to be more DB lop at this moment because we’ll have the whole day. No Let’s where it’s come from. But at this moment, we’re going to be we’re going to be optimistic in order to be more familiar with this effect. So, the quality control or the production methodology, it’s a challenge as well in order to make it understandable for the whole market. I wanted to include some model testimonials, I need an inspection. This is a new technology is something quiet about this moment. There are more projects already started with this technology, but I something is a brand new. So these are the five more important rules or regulations in order To keep in mind for calculation warranties, how to treat these kind of models, which is something similar the monitoring study model, but just keep in mind the different treatment of these on the backside of the model in order to how to calculate or flex your arms how to calculate at least what is the reality of the products here on the back

Unknown Speaker 13:31
development with vaccines.

Unknown Speaker 13:34
So at least in my area, we have to subdivide the treatment of these are by foster models in a in the below man in three estates, which is the beginning configuration for albedo sub albedo analysis course plan configuration design of the blind. So With the varieties at least at this moment, and one of these main variation that the basis the saw that all of us already is meta norm, or the NASA, the NASA they date they can propose or they come provide an estimated Oberto from the sky. At least photo from the, the, the dry and the piles. The thing is, this is just evasion. They have a lot of fun certeyn so he’s going to be necessary from a point of view to be to be on site taking the measurements in order to make sure that what is the reality in that in the with a with a with a three stick of the soil. So at least what it includes of different numbers the person page of Dell visa He’s combining with different types of soil. So it’s going to be a key to try to take these technology when there were these technology is more simpler and more interesting. And it depends on the soil of course.

Unknown Speaker 15:20
Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 15:26
the blood configuration as need at least a is going to be something pretty similar like we usually calculate with pvcs for some for all with whatever to the day the production of the blood, so at least I will have to we’ll have to keep in mind. So my consideration with us like the reaction of the DC AC radio, the radio, we usually goes around 121 30 is going to be as lively relax So in saying that he had the GCR the wrong cover radio is going to be a slightly revised radiation again to increase well production, considering well I’ve been on second vision like the same as I was talking about a minute ago. So, electrical protects here. So all of these will have to keep in mind that the model is going to have different methods and different production so there’s all speculation for these electrical equipment as modern equipment needs to be sure, secure a well and save those who there are these slight difference for these are streams, configure AC on stream boxes.

Unknown Speaker 16:53
The rest of the elements of the submission

Unknown Speaker 16:58
for the Oban community

Unknown Speaker 17:01
So, these are the terms for the volume for bankability, and we have we can talk in more detail with your. So, this is the solid research is the analysis of the albedo that is something about tennis play the detail after my presentation. So, the PR the event definition for these are by faster models versus the capacity test. So at least you if you are familiar with this kind of calculation, you can see that pvcs for example, sets all bankable to that Lisa is calculating all of these products you know with by fasciae Classic models are increasing the capacity of the model by just a classic side. So Elisa, there are some considerations In order to how to how to take the control of the operation, how to understand the treatment of a of the other production with these bypassing models, so the models quality this on inspection, so I believe, we need to make sure that the models he can produce what they are ensuring at least the manufacturer that we are a manufacturer of course, if you’ve been designer we were talking about model efficiency. So keep in mind the IEC 6170 124 that is commanded off this main constructor to cover production and equipment, so at least we still need a main contract or an EPC company at the back of all of these abrasion on is a job because of the These highs we were talking PR definition company based. He’s not down here define it by the market at the moment, what is the method, the methodology to move on about these kinds of technology and the operator after contractor for the warranty period. That’s the one of these that the main challenge for this technology is treatment of the the operation on the mind and as for these models, during the lifetime of the project. Having said that, so I’m going to the compressing at least, is clear. We have some challenges with the technology that is something related that is a very brand new technology. So at least is need to be more mature in order to make sure that all the mechanism the within the classical Barnard’s classical parties for these knology for the whole abrasion are sure and are familiar with it analogy. So at least we need to make sure that they’ll be they’ll be the has been worth consider. We need to make sure as well that are the deciding configuration of the plan. It’s a while ago see that we are taking the optimal thermal optimal the knees with a manufacturing follow up of the of the manufacturing process. I wanted to make sure I wanted to be there checking that the models are correctly correctly inspected and also that the models are going to be okay from a quality point of view.

Unknown Speaker 21:01
Music Production and lease Are you see now all TV with a similar cost on overall, at least what we are going to see in the next year is how these are with the level of the prices that the technology is taking, at least at this moment from our point of view that he’s going to make sense to manufacturer only by fossil models during the in the next year. And at least the client will decide if they are going to use one side, both sides wherever, but at least I don’t see many difference between that is going to make me decide me think that we are still being manufacturing mono during the many months, many more years. And what I wanted to include, as an example was Is there a propulsion on the delta and with the different parameters of the plant so Solar City soil, and as whether or how reflects the PR and deal can be modified can be more dependent on the situation just as an example. I’m before for my so. So just a brief presentation on what are the talents to keep in mind.

Unknown Speaker 22:28
Time to develop the brain.

Belén Gallego 22:31
Thank you very much. Again, thank you very much for this comprehensive presentation. I’m just gonna get your presentation off. And I’d like to invite Alberto to introduce also your to put your presentation up, sorry to unmute your microphone and we are actually having some technical issues with your we’re trying to recover him. Hopefully this will be done. And Yep, perfect. So We can see, we can Yes, Miguel. Just there is a lot of questions open already. There are about nine, maybe some of them you could be answering by text, if you could, I would really appreciate it, please. Okay. And Alberto, go right ahead.

Unknown Speaker 23:14
Yeah. Okay, thank you. So I’m gonna start with a very brief introduction about the company. I will add renewables. As I mentioned before, we are identical advisory independent advisory firm, an engineering company working in renewables. We have worked in more than 50 countries. We have more than 70 engineers in the team. We have five offices in different continents. We have an accumulated experience that reaches 80 gigawatts and more than 500 projects already been answered successfully. So the topic today is by farcical technology and in particular bankability Okay, from so by partial Denali. In the end, it’s a similar to a convention When the fashion and fashion model with a different that it can also produce energy by converting it by converting into electricity the addition that reaches the rear side, okay, that’s the only difference, but this is different makes a lot on implies a lot of components that should be taken into account when analyzing bankability, at least from the from the technical point of view which is a one we are experiencing okay. So, I listed here some of the main concerns or issues to be assessed for for when analyzing a period. So, basically we are talking about different different technology. So we have to focus on on the technology itself, it is a buy factor model which is similar but not exactly the same manufacturer model. Then it is important that the contracts in particularly the warranties how the performance warranty are defined in the contract. And this is extremely relevant because because it is different to To the case of formal fashion or modern fashion and finally, miglia already included this the illustration So, doing the illustration for by fashion, it is a bit more complicated, more formal the fashion and in addition there is a lack of track record compare obviously with the with the commissioner on the fashion, whether there are a lot of 16 plants already in operation, the models are very well calibrated. And the policy of the methods of the base around the companies is quite good. In our in my fashion, we have this, this lack of real experience. And this means things bit a bit more complicated, okay. And as part of them in this dimension, we have to properly estimate the albedo at the end. Why for albedo, because this is something that will influence a lot the result of the United Nations. Okay, so this is what I’m going to focus today on All Weather dry is dimension. So within the end can be defined as the ratio between the globally or sample your audience that reaches an additional space compared to the audience that would be reflected by the by the by a given surface, in this case the terrain. So apparently, it’s a quite a simple thing. So it’s just measuring the reflectivity of the terrain, right? But it is not the case. So our weather is not a constant value, it can change and it has a lot of confidence that should be taken into account in order to properly properly assess and estimate the dry. So I’m gonna start with them. mentioning that with the fact that it is not a constant value. So value the albedo can change during the year. From one month to other from that one day to other and even within the same day. That is change. There are changes in the weather. There is one summer of the reasons are pointed out here. Fall because there are changes in the terrain the vegetation can change during the year, then the position of the sun in the end the amount of radiation that are given to face will reflect will depend on the incident and on the angle of incident of this irritation in the land. So, therefore, the position of the sun is different, the amount of tradition that the land will reflect will be different, and they say happened with the solar spectrum. Depending on the kind of solar spectrum or the Iranians that is fresh in the land, the amount of energy on radiation reflected will be different. Therefore, since these two parameters the position of the sun and the solar spectrum are varying continuously, the albedo that I could measure on a given point on different moments will also be different. Here is an example of data provided by a satellite in that data provider which is NASA in the US, you know, To illustrate how albedo can change the model the albedo during the whole year.

Unknown Speaker 28:06
And then but it is not only the the only chance, there is also an internal variability, which means that even the same day or the same month in different years, it can for a given site could have different albedo values, which is a little bit more complicated to understand, because in the end, the position the sound will be similar. And the rate of completion could be similar, but it is not the case. Why not what maybe because that can be changed, mainly because there can be change in the current diplomatic conditions. And secondly, because in the affairs in the air, they can also be changes like the dust pollution and things like that, but will influence on the, on the characteristics of the radiation that reaches they’re not in order to give you an idea for how these body ability to be in this graph we illustrate the annual variability for annual albedo in different insights in different countries. So, as you can see, it is a it is not

Unknown Speaker 29:12
negligible variability, but it’s it is an important one.

Unknown Speaker 29:17
So, once we have highlighted the fact that the weather is not easy to estimate and is not such simple, what are the possibilities we will have today in order to properly assess for a given site before I can employ it. So, the first possibility will be using a lot of basis like metronome. However, the problem is that they are not recommended for this kind of assessment and fall below because their weather is very independent on their on their site itself of the land and the terrain. So, even though we have a metro station we should look at the beta near from outside may be the case that the terrain is not exactly the same and the albedo differences can be Very high. So, they are they are they will not be upgraded or for doing administration then we have the little databases they provide quite reliable values, but still they have some minions I would say which are mainly responsible for solution they give you the accuracy the level of uncertainty that they are giving when when using the estimation for for our better try. And the last way to approach this it would be by cutting out all measurements on site. Okay. The only problem is that since we have said that our variable is continuously changing in order to properly assess we should make a long time Mr. main complaint. So, in the end even though this other little databases could be as a table in order to go farther and provide something which is a bit, let’s say better or more great. Why don’t we make a mistake So, this is the core of fundamentals. So, basically our method consists of going to a particular site on a client requires to perform an investigation carrying out a short term measurement campaign, which will last between one and seven days normally and then correlate this data and make a correlation with long term stability in database in order to provide a representative estimation of the long term. So the message itself is divided in four steps. The first step is obviously the measurement itself. There are some concerns to be considered. First one is the equipment we need to use a calibrated equipment and high accuracy equipment. Secondly is the duration we have to define the duration of the campaign and the number of days the number of hours per day and also which hours during the day we will be measuring because the weather will be changing during the whole day. And then we also have to define the measurement points here by putting the sample separated a big prayer with different colors with different kind of lands. So before going there, I’m measuring everywhere we have to and from back office, we have to assess the side and properly define what will be our measurement point that will be more representative and lastly the diplomatic condition. So, we have to define the minimum condition that should be required in order to consider that a particular measurement is valid. Then after the measurement, we have to carry out that data processing which is very simple and basically consists of cleaning measurement errors. And then the reason is important step on the process will be before going to the simulation with this little database, which is the correction. So they did the correction is done in order to correct those effects that could be Could have affected to our measurement, but would not be representative of the long times. And then we’re going to try to spend this with an example, which would be the rain in the precipitation. Okay. So if, for instance, I vote for a particular side to do, I’m assuming in OLS. And in this slide, normally, it always is not a rainy month, but the specific year or a specific day in which I make the measurement. It happens, but it has been raining for the last three weeks. The measurement that we I will take will not be let’s say representative or that from a long time, because it’s it was affected by this unusual training, which is not typical. So, raining is one of the most important is not the only one. But this kind of effects has to be corrected in order to not to influence or

Unknown Speaker 33:58
make the initial Representatives. So after doing this correction, we can already proceed to extrapolation. And with extrapolation, there are also some concerns mainly the database, the database, which is a long term digital database to use, we have a lot of possibilities on this repetition method itself. So this is the explanation for metal. Last year we carry on spinning that last, the whole year 2019 where we try to, let’s say validate our method. This tournament consistent on Korean coming out in on a particular site. In this case it was in near Seville in Spain, we carry out our monthly measurements. Once a month, we went to the same site and we take the measurements. You have the data record that in the in the graph on the right side and then once the The 12 minutes woman had been taken, we start checking with different fidelity databases for simulation and with different methods of extrapolation. And with different corrections or precipitation correcting by the last three weeks raining by the last one was raining. So let’s say that we checked multiple variables aiming at identify the methods and the suddenly database and the collection that gave the best results, what is the one that gives the best results? So basically, what we are looking for is the method that if I apply this method for a particular measurement, for instance, for the general instrument, and I make the whole extrapolation for the whole year, and not repeat the specimen for a different month, for instance, always and I get this simulation for the whole year. Ideally, both estimations should concern so not with no matter when I made them Measurement estimation for the whole year should be the same ideally. So this is not the case. But there are some uncertainties, but the let’s say that the target was to identify the method that minimizes this difference. And this is what we did. And that is how we we identified the best way to proceed. That was how we defined our method. And also we were able to measure the deviation standard deviation that method resulted in one point 59 and which, let’s say that compared to conventional fertility database, they could be in the range of 2.5 so it’s significantly lower. So as conclusion the ability and wise dimension which is very relevant for the fascia, mediums for the for you to find once you find you can be performant. Then you learn Insert the date by combining combining civility databases and short term measurement. However, it is not a simple process and requires a lot of correction and a lot of assessment. We may publish one month ago more or less our full report on white paper that you can download in this link. And maybe we’ll income put the link in the shot or when we later. And also, I include this graph in this map where I highlighted some of the sites where we have applied or methods in the last year. And this is all from my side. Thank you.

Belén Gallego 37:37
Thank you very much, Alberto. I had gone right ahead of you and actually share the paper earlier. It’s in the chat you guys so you can just click on the link and and download it yourselves. And okay, you’re we’ve lost your image, but I think we are now you’re back. Yay. I think we can hear you. Can you switch on your mic? Let me see. If I can do it, no,

Unknown Speaker 38:02
you have to do yourself.

Belén Gallego 38:04
A Perfect. Okay, so your point of view and you know, especially as Sabra was mentioning so much the bankability side of things. And this is a complicated matter to understand, you know, a lot of questions about, okay, why does it change the value to your point of view by facials and all of this topic, please? I know you don’t have a presentation, but go right ahead.

Unknown Speaker 38:25
Okay, thank you. Yeah, you’re right. I don’t have a presentation. And obviously, I mean, from, from a bank’s perspective, obviously, there was little we can access from from a purely technical perspective. So, maybe, let us maybe just so let me just briefly explain how we look at projects which are presented to us and which, from sponsors who wish to use by facial PV modules. I mean, in general, as you may understand, I mean, obviously any introduction of let’s say new risks or new technological challenges to a project from a lender’s perspective is always a challenge. And I mean, as you know, in a project financing we heavily rely on the predictability of future cash flows and that is how we can achieve to raise certain debt against the project and to achieve attractive for leverage center projects. But again, this is a play of risk and reward in the end. So, we have to CSS and then going on, if the risks that we run by by these by generating these cash flows are still let’s say assumable from a from a bank’s perspective, and obviously, the more aspects we introduce into into a project, the quantum more complicated. Now, having said all this, I mean, I think lenders are somehow in the in the world of energy and renewables, I think lenders are somehow continuous with taking on board to a certain degree, technology risk new technologies. I remember the time for example, when we, when we financed the first solar thermal power plants here in Spain CSP technology that at that time was also quite unknown and there was a bit of there was quite a bit of also uncertainty obviously from a lender’s perspective if this is bankable or financial on a long term basis, and but in the end, we I think we always found solutions, good solutions that say to get these projects off the ground and, and I think this is certainly what will also happen in the future with PV plants using by facial modules. Maybe from from our perspective, from my perspective, I think there are basically like, three aspects or challenges that I see and that I would maybe like to briefly comment on first of all, the technology risk as such. Then second, the production the additional production that will come from from this technology and then also serve aspect Which I mainly would like also hear what my co panelists think about how this will also impact then on a long term basis in regards of operation and maintenance works on a PV plant maybe to run quickly through these three aspects of technology. Obviously, as an angler, we first of all have to get comfortable that these modules present the same level of reliability than what we would also expect from from normal non by facial modules. That is certainly one aspect we would like to understand and we would certainly need to rely on on on on technical consultants that we typically use in the project finance transactions like like data, for example. And so that is obviously an important issue that to get comfort that the PV modules will in the end, present the same useful life and what we would what we can expect also for let’s say, normal, non vibrational practice Module. Let’s suppose again, I know the technical expert, let’s suppose that we can say yes, it is the same, the same useful life and so on. And obviously, the key question is what what do we do with this additional production that may come from from from using facial modules? And I mean, in First of all, I would say, possibly the question is not if a project can be bankable or not bankable, it uses notational technology, I think we can use it possibly as long as we get a positive opinion on the useful life. We can use it but the questions obviously, if you would like to, as a lender to consider the additional production that comes from the bifurcation technology in your, in your in your base case, or that sizing model that is obviously the question, and I mean, as you know, in a project financing, they’re always let’s see two big stakeholders. On the one hand, it’s the lender and then it’s also the sponsor. And obviously, you can use a technology by The question is who of the two is going to take the risk on this? Yeah, and it must not necessarily be the lender can also be equity or it can be both of both of the two parties. Yeah, I mean, there are certainly a certain variety of alternatives that that that I can see for example, how to treat with this additional production, you can obviously, what we could do for example is just don’t take it into consideration for doing the debt sizing exercise that is typically done from a from a lending perspective. So, any additional production coming from the by facial technology would then be for the benefit of the of the sponsor, but then also taking the risk on this. So he will not achieve a higher leverage but he will have the benefit of the higher cash flows that are generated eventually, on a second maybe element that could be of interest in sports.

Belén Gallego 44:00
Just me or we’ve lost your

Unknown Speaker 44:03
pension before that some years ago when we did the CSP financing systems and Spain for example, where we had from the sponsor production guarantee on board so so can you still hear when we finance the CSP plants, we obviously, we had a production guarantee on bought from the sponsor, so the sponsors. So what we agreed with the sponsor said we that we would finance these plants. But given that we didn’t have the necessary comfort in the technology, we said that we wait for one, two or three years, and then we look into the actual production of the plant. And if the production is not what we thought it would be, we would then do a readjustment in the base case and maybe somehow D leverage the project by additional equity or whatsoever or just leave it as it is if the production values can be confirmed. So that is certainly another technology that introduces obviously and guarantee element but it’s a possibility. Another would be maybe to give in to design an additional veterans. can only be drawn down after let’s say, for example, one year, once you’ve seen that the plant is up and running and can produce the the production levels that were expected. That is certainly another element. Or if you go to a more aggressive structure would be that lenders would accept, let’s say, to somehow consider the additional production. But then we need maybe certain, let’s say mitigating structures just in case the production levels in the end cannot be achieved, like additional cash rapes or whatsoever. So for me, another question that I would maybe later pass on also to my colleagues here is also what you would consider as a reasonable timeframe for let’s say, testing a power plant, let’s say under really full operating light conditions before really as a lender, I can say, okay, that is now sufficient to to take on the comfort. And then there was certainly a last aspect and I would also like to commend, it’s not only about the technology as such, and also the additional Production risk, but I think we as lenders would also like to know what’s going to happen, let’s say on a long term basis, from an purity on them perspective. I mean, obviously the albedo depends on the ground conditions on the site. Yeah. So do we need, for example, additional obligations on behalf of the operator, let’s say to keep the site in a certain condition so that the albedo is not affected on a long term basis. All these things obviously, somehow have also to be need to be considered and someone has possibly to guarantee this. And, again, I mean,

Unknown Speaker 46:51
same question again. Can you hear me

Unknown Speaker 47:00
Not as a technical expertise that we would view certainly from a lender’s perspective so shopping about something which is completely it, and I hope that not so much was lost. I was

Belén Gallego 47:27
okay, I’m not sure what’s going on with your gun Fortunately, I think he’s

Unknown Speaker 47:33
currently acting as a maybe as a brief summary. I mean, obviously, I mean, I’m assuming from from a lender’s perspective or when, let’s say experience, how these how reliable these additional production might be, and the modules might be, and I think that’s a good idea anyway would be so that it’s so annoying, certainly. lost again.

Belén Gallego 47:57
Yeah, no, no, no, we can hear you. I’ve taken you We do have to see if the bandwidth means that we can hear you continuously. Okay, so just keep going. We can hear you.

Unknown Speaker 48:08
Can you hear me?

Belén Gallego 48:09
Yes, we can I take in your screen off to see if the bandwidth will allow you to hear you better.

Unknown Speaker 48:19
Can you hear me Dr.

Belén Gallego 48:24
York? Can you hear me? Okay, let me ask a few questions and yeah, yes, we can hear you. Okay, he cannot hear us unfortunately. So we just gonna go ahead and ask some few questions if that’s okay. It’s a shame really because we’ve lost the most interesting company and your Yes, we can hear you. I’m just not sure you can hear us. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 48:57
My apologies for this, but this must be a on internet issue, yeah, if you

Belén Gallego 49:03
don’t worry, can you hear us now? Can you finish what you were saying? Okay, so let me ask you a few questions. And again, Alberto if I may, was there let’s see if we can get back York. Can I just ask you? Can you open up your microphones please? Both of you. Um, so about one very specific for you is, is there a TA method for measuring albedo applicable to any location around the world?

Unknown Speaker 49:34
There is no problem there is no difference, the only particularities that we have to travel now with a restriction This is being difficult in some countries, we have farms and local partners that can do the measurements campaign on out on representing ourselves. But yeah, we could do everywhere, provided that we can we don’t Frustration from travels.

Belén Gallego 50:02
Okay, so here there is a question that has gotten me a little bit confused. It says what is the truest software to get the bankability or to understand bankability? For me? Nike is a PVC store is there anywhere else? I think kind of the one that we were making is that the calculations that we that are currently available are not too strict, so to speak. So for bankability issues, we need to go above and beyond. But is this is what’s the case? I don’t know. Miguel, maybe let me ask you this question. As a developer, you know, for vibration projects. What do you use in order to secure bankability for efficient projects?

Unknown Speaker 50:39
Right, Elise, there is no, just as an a specific, specific tool for bankability, or that is going to make the bankability working for the bank saw the first view. So at least is a process you’re going to consider. We use the same tools for the day. They’re gonna find out models, but of course, including the methodology that Alberto was talking about that is a procedure is a procedure of least how to secure the calculation or how to secure what is appropriate what is going to be the production. So, these are we use same tools pvcs as usually solid D is ready some database but at least adaptive and also considering the DCI specific parameters that I was talking about for further by fossils.

Belén Gallego 51:39
There is a question here about materials and a lot of people asking, you know, have you tried different material textiles in different locations and albedo and how that accent you know, affects the reliability even, what would you recommend as materials for increasing albedo or deficiently Just wanted to open this question I imagine is a cost opportunity calculation from you know, what you gain and what you lose in terms of so just to the two of you really, as a, you know, technical adviser and as a developer, I mean, how would you approach this topic?

Unknown Speaker 52:15
The comment from my side is exactly what you do so well and so, first of all, you have to ensure that the material you are evaluating will not have any kind of environmental problem. So you cannot install whatever on whatever side, you can’t you have to be sure that the material you want to sell will not cause any kind of environmental problem or environmental conference with the permitting or the prayer. Once this has been solved, it is just a commercial issue. So you have to take into consideration the costs and the benefits, how much does whether we’ll be aggressive How much the energy will be interested and how much it costs. But also it is important to consider that the normally this kind of material will not last for many years or maybe you have to replace you have to say maintain so you when you’re analyzing the global you have to consider not only the installation costs but also the ability under maintaining and replacing costs if any.

Belén Gallego 53:33
We get it would you like to add anything here and welcome back your we can see you now hopefully you can hear us well.

Unknown Speaker 53:42
Really, my apologies for this but Oh, don’t worry. Don’t worry. I don’t know

Unknown Speaker 53:47
sorry for this

Belén Gallego 53:48
less legislator Miguel, answer this specific question and then you can finish perhaps won’t begin

Unknown Speaker 53:56

Unknown Speaker 53:59
much more To listen to what we’re saying,

Unknown Speaker 54:05
okay, that’s fine.

Belén Gallego 54:06
That’s fine you guys, this this must be something like in terms of RPF that are currently asking for by facial modules do they specify the albedo in the RPF and the RFP sorry. So, in the tenders do they do they specify or how do they fire by facial PV tenders are Someone is asking here.

Unknown Speaker 54:29
What is the specific then there’s all the fossil fuel they are open and that to me is under four. You can find different cases and in some cases the dinner organizer gives you the yield, I sorry, the solar the dry, the solar resource to be used for a policy to be used for the breed. In some cases it is you is the bidder who has to make its own operations but I never saw that. In my particular Tinder, they gave you albedo measurements or abetters dimension, it is the user who has to in case they want to meet with, by fashion, it is the user who has to make its own assumptions,

Belén Gallego 55:13
however, by facial projects are winning more bids as time goes back. So, you know,

Unknown Speaker 55:19
this is changing, it is a process. And so the fact is, there are two points here. So the first one is that they’re better, they’re better I mean, by faster project will be more attractive in these are not in conflict with a lot of visitation. So in Middle East for instance, normally by facilities is the most competitive and secondly, it is the price so by fashion model, models are a bit more expensive. But the gap is being reduced every month. So here is the Mr. Normally they are winning in this big bids, because the gap is being reduced, but also because Also, because in the Middle East, normally we have a very clear ground.

Belén Gallego 56:05
So sand is very good for weather guys write that one down. Okay, York, let me give you a let’s see if we get a few minutes with no problems from you. from the, from the microphone. So, you know, just give us your your last you would like the last stretch. So it’s been a little bit of a cut, but perhaps,

Unknown Speaker 56:24
I don’t know what, what, what was the last thing that you can hear? I think that was a bit of a, let’s say maybe summary also for myself? No, I mean, yeah. Again, just as a quick summary, does it just I hope that I’m not repeating what I what I mentioned already. I mean, again, I don’t think that that that, let’s say by facial modules would not be let’s say bankable, let’s say they certainly can. It’s a technology that certainly can be bankable, but again, lenders need to get comfort. We need to, let’s say, to see projects that are really up and running with this technology and see how the experiences from With the additional production we need to add comfort with, with the technology as such and, and, and we would we would certainly not let’s say just apply, let’s say the same financing technique if you would like to call it like this on a on a, on a on a on a PV plant that uses by facial models in a PV plant that does use Mumbai facial wonder, again, we would certainly not need some sort of additional comfort to cover the technology risk involved and this additional production risk involved. And I’ve mentioned in my in my chat before some, let’s say some, some ideas that could be that we could think about. Again, it’s a sort of balancing the risk between the sponsor and the lender so that each one maybe can get for what they’re looking for in the end to the sponsor, so they’re looking to try to get a bit more leverage. By higher production, the vendor would get to good comfort, and there are certainly let’s say financing structures which can, which can do that in the end to everybody, everybody can get what is equal in the project, but

Belén Gallego 58:09
thank you very much. Yeah, definitely work with banks, right? That’s, I think, in the end, and as more and more projects appear, then easier it’s going to become and having high you know, high quality equipment manufacturers helps. So, okay, now, we don’t have a lot of time. So I have a kid here three questions, and I’m gonna kind of like boil them all into one and I leave them up. I think it’s more on the technical side, but you know, leave them up. So that is someone here that is asking for example. how short can a measurement campaign consider be considered? Can it be to be considered acceptable for you? So that’s one so how quickly can you make this these measurements is albedo higher on water on land and there is definitely this thing with floating projects. You know, are they good and albedo? And the last one if I wanted to increase albedo, you know what are the ways to increase them? Now in the case of large scale solar projects that are acceptable so I live I live this maybe ever you take the lead and then you’re again in Vienna or whatever from their perspective.

Unknown Speaker 59:19
Yeah. Well for the mushrooming campaign in principle one or two days would be enough. But the problem is that normally we would make more days in order to for big areas in order to cover different kinds of terrains and so that we can make an estimation on the lowest scenario the higher scenario on the on the average on the float MPV with by fossil I don’t know Miguel yours if you have heard about that in the past. In my opinion, this is something that is yet on very initial stage, and they have no problem but they have a lot of feces to demonstrate idea that to solve the float and bV and they are like nothing at this moment And ideally,

Belén Gallego 1:00:05
we had a webinar the other day so that you know and the person who’s talking about by facials that we’re saying that the future of facials are fruit implants.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:12
So yeah but the thing to consider is like we are in the in the initial process, that’s what I find that to say that and it is something new. And probably by faster will have will have sense of the sounds into that we will start seeing in the future. And if you already with me, Miguel, maybe you have seen already something in place.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:37

Unknown Speaker 1:00:40
is new or there’s more value that I can say much more

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
what what was the last one blank?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:51
Will we come back you know in a few years and there was what what materials can you use So what can you do to increase your value as of today. They what has been In the most important in order not to do it artificially using different material, the best thing you can do is to proper, properly maintain the site. So to clean it,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:14
good vegetation and so on. So this is essential. And in fact, I think this will be a key factor on contracts. And during competition operational review of the query plans to make sure that the operator are maintaining the land clean. If you want to use other materials, there are a lot of possibilities on the tables. And some of them are impacted by local factors. For instance, if you have close sight with black with white stones, apparently it would be a good solution to bring the white stones to your site. But if you have to bring bring them from different countries, then will be too costly. So some of them can be affected by this physical location and general but let’s say that there is no unique solution that is establishing itself as the best one right now.

Belén Gallego 1:02:12
Okay, well thank you very much. Thank you very much began. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you very much for all of your effort. I’m so sorry. It’s been such a technical nightmare. I hope that you guys have learned as much as I have today about albedo bankability above by facial pvn. One thing I know is you cannot ignore this technology is coming to stay is coming with the strength. The projections look huge. And do we know Do we have all the answers today? We do not. However, you know, as time goes by, we’re learning hugely and I think honestly, in by facial I have been following it for a couple of years now and I have seen the quickest gains in terms of innovation, because in this week 10 there’s in these big projects we’re literally fighting for pennies of pennies, you know, sense of belly So in order to gain tenders, you need to get that competitive value very, very high. And this is the technology that is kind of increasingly improving to be the one. So, again, thank you very much, Miguel, Alberto and, and York. And thank you very much to everyone. See you next time. See you in the next webinar. Thank you very much. Bye.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:20
Thank you. Bye bye.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:22
Thank you, everybody. Bye bye. Thank you, everyone. Thanks

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